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  • Johnson Rejects Scottish Referendum Calls

    From bnnbloomberg.ca

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson has celebrated triumphant early local election results in England, though his attention is already turning to the vote in Scotland which is likely to signal a majority for pro-independence parties. Johnson’s ruling Conservatives tightened their grip on the pro-Brexit former industrial heartlands of northern England in results announced Friday. They took the parliamentary seat of Hartlepool, which overwhelmingly backed leaving the European Union, from the opposition Labour Party for the first time since the electoral district was created in 1974. But north of the border in Scotland, the ... (full story)

  • #1
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  • May 8, 2021 8:59am May 8, 2021 8:59am
I think the constitution allows Scotland to hold a new referendum without B J’s permission as long as the ruling political parti has majority seats. Correct me if I am wrong. Whatever happens it is absolutely not sure that the outcome of a referendum will be different this time. However the political situation in U.K. and the international ties of the union are completely different from what they were 7 years ago. Let’s see what happens.
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  • #2
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  • Edited 3:08pm May 8, 2021 10:45am | Edited 3:08pm
Why can't the Scots have a vote, what's wrong with sovereignty, what's up with this appalling undemocratic attitude of the English ?
Scotland obviously desperately wants out of this bureaucratic experiment which solely favors England. The UK is in a epic decline, once it was 30 percent of the global economy, now it's less than a percent. The pound lost 99 percent of its value over the last 100 years. The UK has the worst Covid death rate of the world, I mean how many clues do you need ?

Of course they want out, an independent Scotland can trade its oil and fish with the EU and the rest of the world.
Then sign up for a Canada style free trade deal with England, they need you more than you need them. Get out of it before it's too late, do it, chance of a lifetime, freedom !
  • #3
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  • Edited 1:33pm May 8, 2021 1:03pm | Edited 1:33pm
Quoting barkie
Why can't the Scots have a vote, what's wrong with sovereignty, what's up with this appalling undemocratic attitude of the English ? Scotland obviously desperately wants out of this bureaucratic experiment which solely favors England. The UK is in epic decline, once it was 30 percent of the global economy, now it's less than a percent. The pound lost 99 percent of its value over the last 100 years. The UK has the worst Covid death rate of the world, I mean how many clues do you need ? Of course they want out, an independent Scotland can trade its...
"... Get out of it before it's too late, do it, chance of a lifetime, freedom!" The people of Scotland had an independence referendum in 2014. With an 84.6% turnout, 55.3% voted to stay.

What facts do you have that lead to the conclusion that it is a chance of a lifetime?

{edit - in general, my preference is usually always towards smaller sovereign states, as long as their central banks can be trusted with managing money, and other important stuff}
  • #4
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  • May 8, 2021 1:28pm May 8, 2021 1:28pm
Quoting LloydOz
{quote} "... Get out of it before it's too late, do it, chance of a lifetime, freedom!" The people of Scotland had an independence referendum in 2014. With an 84.6% turnout, 55.3% voted to stay. What facts do you have that lead to the conclusion that it is a chance of a lifetime?
He is an Europhile, hating the Brits...don't mind him.
Everyone can see the chart, but only a few can actually read it.
  • #5
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  • May 8, 2021 3:01pm May 8, 2021 3:01pm
Quoting OnlineAddict
{quote} He is an Europhile, hating the Brits...don't mind him.
Hold on buddie, I'm a fan and I actually like Britain and the individual countries on it, but I'm totally against the socialist, bureaucratic and protectionist racket called the UK. Why do you think they're shrinking like a raisin for the last 100 years, it doesn't work.

Give the people of Britain their well deserved freedom back and everybody will be happy, split it up.
  • #6
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  • May 8, 2021 3:05pm May 8, 2021 3:05pm
Quoting LloydOz
{quote}{edit - in general, my preference is usually always towards smaller sovereign states, as long as their central banks can be trusted with managing money, and other important stuff}
Exactly split it up in hundreds of city states, with each having their own king, decentralization is what's needed and self regulation is what suits the average Brit best.
  • #7
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  • May 8, 2021 3:44pm May 8, 2021 3:44pm
Quoting barkie
{quote} Exactly split it up in hundreds of city states, with each having their own king, decentralization is what's needed and self regulation is what suits the average Brit best.
No, that is not something anyone sensible would advocate.

Unless you are proposing a federation, like say Germany or Australia, and then we're back to square one.
  • #8
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  • Edited 5:03pm May 8, 2021 4:11pm | Edited 5:03pm
Quoting NotAtrader
I think the constitution allows Scotland to hold a new referendum without B J’s permission as long as the ruling political parti has majority seats. Correct me if I am wrong. Whatever happens it is absolutely not sure that the outcome of a referendum will be different this time. However the political situation in U.K. and the international ties of the union are completely different from what they were 7 years ago. Let’s see what happens.
Good analysis.
Thing is that whats been evident for some time, (decades) that the constitutional structure of the UK has been becoming increasingly unfit for purpose... and the the devolution project was constantly behind the curve. However the complexity and number of interests in play post Brexit now will make further reform extremely difficult... My personal view is that reform is preferable to a series of deeply divisive confrontational breakup referenda. And that Scotland will struggle as an independent nation. The disfunctionality of the Union prior to Brexit was manageable.. but its part of the Brexit tragedy for the UK that Brexit was essentially a middle England Nationalist project without sympathy in either Scotland or NI.
I can recall being bemused in 2016 at the euro skeptics cat-calls that Brexit would lead to breakup of EU, when more astute political analysists, had realised that it was the UK itself that was in jeopardy.
For Investors and traders the issue is what the consequences of the threat of a UK disintegration would be for the pound. My own belief is that this will be a protracted struggle of interests and in NIs case of demography over the next decade. However I can see few glimmers of light to be optimistic about UKs long term security or standing in the world in the way events are progressing.
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  • #9
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  • May 8, 2021 5:46pm May 8, 2021 5:46pm
Quoting RossEdwards
{quote} Good analysis. Thing is that whats been evident for some time, (decades) that the constitutional structure of the UK has been becoming increasingly unfit for purpose... and the the devolution project was constantly behind the curve. However the complexity and number of interests in play post Brexit now will make further reform extremely difficult... My personal view is that reform is preferable to a series of deeply divisive confrontational breakup referenda. And that Scotland will struggle as an independent nation. The disfunctionality...
Agreed. However there is something we cannot forget. The selfishness of the politicians. When they follow their own political agenda they don’t fak’n care about the consequences. The only thing they care about is to write their name in the history. I feel sorry for the people who have no choice but to stand this kind of politicians. On the other hand everyone should be thankful that the democracy is still intact which is confirmed by the fact that the inly way this can happen is via referendum. The only one who can violate the democratic principles is B. J. and I don’t exclude the probability of him doing exactly that as he has shown similar tendencies before.

https://www.forexfactory.com/news/10...e#post13529732
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  • #10
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  • May 8, 2021 10:59pm May 8, 2021 10:59pm
Quoting NotAtrader
{quote} ...On the other hand everyone should be thankful that the democracy is still intact which is confirmed by the fact that the inly way this can happen is via referendum...
Yes.. 100%.. but never forget even Democracy's flaws especially when exercised directly as in referendums,
..as Mencken said nearly 100 years ago...

Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

H. L. Mencken
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  • #11
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  • May 8, 2021 11:27pm May 8, 2021 11:27pm
How about England leaving the Uk ?
Would Wales & Scotland & Northern Ireland be better off ?
Gr88888
  • #12
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  • May 9, 2021 3:07am May 9, 2021 3:07am
Quoting Rewolf
How about England leaving the Uk ? Would Wales & Scotland & Northern Ireland be better off ?
Is this about being better off?
Brexit wasnt.
At least anyone who thought they were voting brexit to be "better off" has to have been a really dumb-ass.
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  • #13
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  • May 9, 2021 3:13am May 9, 2021 3:13am
Quoting NotAtrader
I think the constitution allows Scotland to hold a new referendum without B J’s permission as long as the ruling political parti has majority seats. Correct me if I am wrong. Whatever happens it is absolutely not sure that the outcome of a referendum will be different this time. However the political situation in U.K. and the international ties of the union are completely different from what they were 7 years ago. Let’s see what happens.
The constitution is rather grey on this aspect, ie ruling party majority. In theory yes, majority party rules, but it was muddled up a bit when both SNP and Green did not "agree" openly that they would form a coalition again. This was partly SNP trying to gain momentum for a majority. But as expected now, both SNP and Green will be back as coalition, but the tories will be arguing at High Court otherwise.

Never appreciated several policies of Nicola Sturgeon, especially in her education policy, dragging Scotland education level down to near bottom by international standards. But I respect this lady, straight to the point and she fxking ANSWER straight to questions!!!! Unlike the bunch of slimy, muffling bullying idiots at Westminster atm that little England voters so adored and voted for.

As said before, a failed economy, education system etc can be fixed over time, but a failed moral society in the likes of little England - it's tossed!

And I can only say, "Ux yours, boris johnson!"
  • #14
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  • May 9, 2021 4:14am May 9, 2021 4:14am
Quoting RossEdwards
{quote} Is this about being better off? Brexit wasnt. At least anyone who thought they were voting brexit to be "better off" has to have been a really dumb-ass.
I think UK is better off outside an abusive relationship..ie EU....as would the UK countries that complain that England is abusing them in UK
Gr88888
  • #15
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  • May 9, 2021 8:08am May 9, 2021 8:08am
Quoting Rewolf
{quote} I think UK is better off outside an abusive relationship..ie EU....as would the UK countries that complain that England is abusing them in UK
Should Scotland be able to establish a history of systemic abuse by England, this may promote a discussion about the option for them to secede.
  • #16
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  • May 9, 2021 10:01am May 9, 2021 10:01am
People don't vote for SNP because they want independence like power hungry sturgeon would have you believe .
It's about being represented.
Theres a clear difference between UK leaving the EU
and
Scotland leaving the UK

And that is about money .
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  • #17
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  • May 9, 2021 10:15am May 9, 2021 10:15am
Quoting barkie
The pound lost 99 percent of its value over the last 100 years. The UK has the worst Covid death rate of the world, I mean how many clues do you need ? Of course they want out, an independent Scotland can trade...
I would let them have it ,are they really that crazy living on the same island and joining the distant dinosaurs .
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  • #18
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  • May 9, 2021 10:51am May 9, 2021 10:51am
Quoting NotBoris
{quote} The constitution is rather grey on this aspect, ie ruling party majority. In theory yes, majority party rules, but it was muddled up a bit when both SNP and Green did not "agree" openly that they would form a coalition again. This was partly SNP trying to gain momentum for a majority. But as expected now, both SNP and Green will be back as coalition, but the tories will be arguing at High Court otherwise. Never appreciated several policies of Nicola Sturgeon, especially in her education policy, dragging Scotland education level...
The fact that B J wanted independence from EU at any cost but he plans to reject any independence attempt from Scotland puzzles me a lot. I am not a person who will immediately support any separatist idea, but in this particular case B J plays unfair. Being like that he will only complicate the matter and make the Scottish parliament even more aggressive in their pro-separatism campaign.

I personally believe that Scottish separation is inevitable during the next decade or so and so is the Irish reunion. I don't know whether this is good or bad but i know this will be the end of the Old Union which started 1707 and grew strong through plenty of good and bad historical event. Kind of sad...
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  • #19
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  • May 9, 2021 12:40pm May 9, 2021 12:40pm
I dont know what all the fuss is about.
Scotland is a bought country. It "belongs" to the UK.
UK Government paid £500,000 in 1707. With inflation that is now nearly £1T.
This money was paid to the Scots to get them out of a pickle and the UK, or namely England, has been paying them ever since in inflated per head subsidies. I say give us our out £1T back and go your own way, including removal of all military bases north of the border. What's wrong with that, everybody happy.
  • #20
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  • May 9, 2021 1:44pm May 9, 2021 1:44pm
Really simple,
2 once in a generation votes
Scotland voted remain
Uk voted leave

This is why theres resistance on another vote.

How can anyone be confused ? the referendums made the decisions not any politician.
Referendum is the fairest process possible. Had Scotland left on the original vote they would be in huge trouble by now and thats a fair warning .I think they would vote the same again.
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  • #21
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  • May 9, 2021 1:58pm May 9, 2021 1:58pm
Quoting Bones
Really simple, 2 once in a generation votes Scotland voted remain Uk voted leave This is why theres resistance on another vote. How can anyone be confused ? the referendums made the decisions not any politician. Referendum is the fairest process possible. Had Scotland left on the original vote they would be in huge trouble by now and thats a fair warning .I think they would vote the same again.
I tend to think it is not prudent to predict the outcome of any popular vote, however tempting that is.

What I do know is that The Elite wish to keep having refurendums until they get the outcome they deem acceptable. However long it takes.
  • #22
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  • May 9, 2021 6:02pm May 9, 2021 6:02pm
Quoting PaulVic
I dont know what all the fuss is about. Scotland is a bought country. It "belongs" to the UK. UK Government paid £500,000 in 1707. With inflation that is now nearly £1T. This money was paid to the Scots to get them out of a pickle and the UK, or namely England, has been paying them ever since in inflated per head subsidies. I say give us our out £1T back and go your own way, including removal of all military bases north of the border. What's wrong with that, everybody happy.
Point of FACT:..
Scotland was NOT bought . Accession to the 1707 Union WAS secured through bribery ..but as you know bribery is only the offering, giving, soliciting, or receiving of an item of value as a means of influencing the actions of an individual holding a public or legal duty.? It does not of itself convey title to anything.
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  • #23
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  • Edited 6:30pm May 9, 2021 6:16pm | Edited 6:30pm
Quoting RossEdwards
{quote} Is this about being better off? Brexit wasnt. At least anyone who thought they were voting brexit to be "better off" has to have been a really dumb-ass.
Yes we are better off. We don't have the liabilities of Italy, Greece or France hanging over us. We can implement policies that are suitable for the UK rather than a one size fits all approach. I can go to the pub next week and see family. I'm perfectly happy with the outcome.
  • #24
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  • May 10, 2021 2:40am May 10, 2021 2:40am
Quoting NotAtrader
{quote} The fact that B J wanted independence from EU at any cost but he plans to reject any independence attempt from Scotland puzzles me a lot. I am not a person who will immediately support any separatist idea, but in this particular case B J plays unfair. Being like that he will only complicate the matter and make the Scottish parliament even more aggressive in their pro-separatism campaign. I personally believe that Scottish separation is inevitable during the next decade or so and so is the Irish reunion. I don't know whether this is good...
Personally I do not believe boris johnson knows what he wants, remain nor brexit. All he wanted was to be on a bandwagon that will led him to be the pm of UK and he did! The bunch of gullible little England voters who so desperately wanted out, without understanding the consequences. The dire consequence will be felt for many generations to come! But heyho, my comment here will be met with retaliation from those from the brexit camp.

For now, we need to just move on...
  • #25
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  • May 10, 2021 5:32am May 10, 2021 5:32am
Quoting Steamroller
{quote} Yes we are better off. We don't have the liabilities of Italy, Greece or France hanging over us. We can implement policies that are suitable for the UK rather than a one size fits all approach. I can go to the pub next week and see family. I'm perfectly happy with the outcome.
Sorry but your "Point of Fact" is nothing but a point of Rubbish.
There is a difference between bribery and paying for something. At the time Scotland was in debt way over its head due to its own mismanagement, all Scots not just the wealthy took part. The UK paid off that debt in return for joining the UK. That is fact.
By your reckoning the EU would allow the PIGS to walk away from the EU and "the money" the PIGS owe without any come back... I dont think so
  • #26
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  • May 10, 2021 12:08pm May 10, 2021 12:08pm
Even with all those subsequent vote's people want to say the public were ticked.
Including the vote we just had after a terrible performance Conservative period.
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  • Posted: May 8, 2021 8:32am
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    Category: Fundamental Analysis
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