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  • Barnier: Tells EU Envoys UK Is Backtracking On Fisheries

Added at 2:55am
Added at 2:55am

"Mr Burns" from the Simpsons doing his bit for market volatility. God on ya son!
The fisheries conflict is just a distraction. Political and nationalist media click-bait.
The substantial issue is the the level playing field. And rapidly enforceable consequences for breaches.
Why? because the "deal" involves EU allowing zero-tariff, zero-quota access to single market.
No other 3rd country has near such preferential access. Much has been made of UK "preference for a CETA type deal. But in reality CETA does nothing for trade in services and in particular financial services, which is very important for the UK economy.

Johnson says a No-Deal will be WONDERUL for British business.
So why has he not walked away?
Warning: A Dangerous Subversive: 1% of comments CoCed
It is getting largely irrelevant now. Why hasn't the EU walked away? Because neither side wants to be the one to have "ended" the talks. The only option is to let the clock run down so that both sides can declare their win one way or the other. It's getting quite laughable tbh.
Boris has just SOLD US OUT! Pathetic piece of S........................................!
Maybe they already reach an agreement, but doesnt want make market too chaos, so they release news step by step....maybe
EU is desperately trying to keep UK attached to its socialism and bureaucracy. EU will be the bigger loser after Brexit, it will be harder to hide how broke the Union really is.
Everyone can see the chart, but only a few can actually read it.
why they are taking too long for final decision.. Deal or no deal and STOP all market bullshit
Fishing outcome is important to both Boris's red wall landslide and Macrons election hopes, but imagine a large EU payment to the UK through a 5 year tranistion would do the trick. Level playing field is all about the future as uk has agreed non regression. Think if negoitiators can say in agreement what each side will do if XYZ happens on either side then that will do the trick, but they will have to think of everything. Seems UK will be due some state aid compensation on 1st looking at the state aid list at present
Quoting OnlineAddict
EU is desperately trying to keep UK attached to its socialism and bureaucracy. EU will be the bigger loser after Brexit, it will be harder to hide how broke the Union really is.
How can they be broke, when they can wake up one morning and decide to print €1trillion.

Economics has changed from the era of 60s, 80s
Fisheries issue is Fundamental to having Sovereignty over Land and Sea within UK domestic control.
Johnson as PM is not legally entitled to surrender or negotiate away UK Sovereignty under any circumstance.
Quoting Blessed-man
{quote} How can they be broke, when they can wake up one morning and decide to print €1trillion. Economics has changed from the era of 60s, 80s
The ECB can drop it on the balance sheet and remove the problems from almost all sectors and only lend money that is GDP positive.. If you want a house get a private investor..
Money is created out of nothing.. it has be empirically tested
It is the biggest joke that has ever been played on a society.
Until the smaller banks are destroyed then they will keep this game up.. They dont want local small banks..
Quoting BaliBoyz80
Maybe they already reach an agreement, but doesnt want make market too chaos, so they release news step by step....maybe
Blimey! That's really thinking outside the box. There are a lot of people who search for conspiracy theories and conniving politicians doing business in the shadows but you've thought of one heck of an outlier there.
Quoting swd
It is getting largely irrelevant now. Why hasn't the EU walked away? Because neither side wants to be the one to have "ended" the talks. The only option is to let the clock run down so that both sides can declare their win one way or the other. It's getting quite laughable tbh.
Agree. Would be laughable except it effects basis for $0.8 Trillion in annual trade trade and unless amicably resolved will involve loss of significant current cooperative arrangements on a vast range of important issues between UK and its closest neighbors that will adversely impact of lives of millions of both EU and UK citizens.
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Quoting RossEdwards
Johnson says a No-Deal will be WONDERUL for British business.
So why has he not walked away?
Your point is valid but did you consider why won't either EU walk away from the negotiation table? They are supposed to be "bigger" and "better" aren't they? The reason is that the EU is a net exporter to the UK so, no deal would be harmful to them (especially to Germany) as well! Ask German car manufacturers...
Quoting upasna
why they are taking too long for final decision.. Deal or no deal and STOP all market bullshit
This is what they want, playing with the market
ON the specific Fishery issue..the following recent comment is worth absorbing..
"The idea that the EU had “stolen” our fish is one of the myths that fueled Brexit. In truth, English fishermen sold off their quotas to foreign operators in the 1990s – in contrast to Scotland where 96% remains in Scottish hands. The UK exports 80% of the fish that it catches, mainly to EU countries. And fishing is a tiny industry contributing little to our economy or employment. It is the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea that requires Britain to negotiate access to its waters for its neighbors – and there is little chance that a politically and economically significant trade deal will be scuppered over fishing".
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Quoting RossEdwards
{quote} Agree. Would be laughable except it effects basis for $0.8 Trillion in annual trade trade and unless amicably resolved will involve loss of significant current cooperative arrangements on a vast range of important issues between UK and its closest neighbors that will adversely impact of lives of millions of both EU and UK citizens.
A first, we agree. EU starting to go from this will effect us at a lower percentage to saying the effect will be the same on both sides at a human level ie 700k job losses, etc. Along with the fact theres a high risk of good will in all areas going out the window in a no deal (Xi & Putin xmas present). Politicians taking so long to look over the cliff edge while thier business wage payers have to worry, simply to justify and keep thier exsistance
Our Prime Minister knows that a no-deal would be a gift to the Scottish Nationalists for independence for Scotland, and to Sinn Fein for a unified Ireland, so he must pull this off. Trouble is I don't think he's has got what it takes to do it, as he's quite a weak leader!

In the meantime it makes for fantastic trading..................
Quoting OnlineAddict
EU is desperately trying to keep UK attached to its socialism and bureaucracy. EU will be the bigger loser after Brexit, it will be harder to hide how broke the Union really is.
EU will do just fine like they always did in many crises before. Only broken union here is UK. How you gonna call your broken union when Scotland will leave?
Quoting Ffoorreexx
{quote} EU will do just fine like they always did in many crises before. Only broken union here is UK. How you gonna call your broken union when Scotland will leave?
There are so many hurdles for an independent Scotland, the currency, the Barnett Formula, the deficit, and the Scottish Borders. None of which have been addressed! Plus, the Scottish National Party did say that the previous referendum in 2014 was a once in a lifetime event. Anyway, stranger things have happened...........
Oh and what opposition party would there be in an independent Scotland, would the SNP rule unopposed?
Quoting RossEdwards
The fisheries conflict is just a distraction. Political and nationalist media click-bait. The substantial issue is the the level playing field. And rapidly enforceable consequences for breaches. Why? because the "deal" involves EU allowing zero-tariff, zero-quota access to single market. No other 3rd country has near such preferential access. Much has been made of UK "preference for a CETA type deal. But in reality CETA does nothing for trade in services and in particular financial services, which is very important for the UK economy....
I am curious. We all know you're a Europhile. Nothing wrong with that, particularly if you live in the EU area and no longer in the UK. Your comments always direct criticism at and attempt to belittle the UK and any part of the UK Government. Both your comments on this feed are strongly pointing the finger at the UK/PM, suggesting they're making a meal out of nothing and all the blame is the UK's, ignoring the fact that there are always 2 sides to a negotiating table. My curiosity is whether you can bring yourself to criticise the EU at all, ever.
If we accept your point about Fisheries being an argument 'about nothing', in economic context, why do you think the EU is making such a strong case for full access to UK Waters and to want to break International Treaty precedent with regard to Sovereign States? Why is the EU making such a meal of it (pun intended!)?
Just to test some thoughts . . . I agree with you about the level Playing Field issue and I CAN understand why it is a devilish issue to resolve. I agree with you about the 'never before has anyone had close to Zero tariffs and full access, without being in the EU itself'. The issue appears to be about who decides on any misdemeanours. naturally the EU wants to be able to make any changes and for the UK to follow and also to be the judge. Naturally the UK says it has a problem with having to follow EU rules, when it's left the EU and it can't accept the EU being the judge. I do wonder why it's not possible to allow the WTO to be the judge of any accusation of future misdemeanours so that the judgement is 'independent'. But then I suppose the US has scuppered the efficacy of the WTO, even if that route was desirable in principle. I think the sticking point is mostly because the judgement that the EU wants is not independent. Anyone have any other thoughts about that?
Your point about CETA: I think I am right in saying it was shut down by Barnier as being an unacceptable way forward but happy to be proven wrong.
With regard to the last 2 lines of your entry, there are many reasons and I know you know them. Some of them have already been entered on this feed by others. However, I'd like to know your opinion about this: If the question was turned round in focus and asked, 'If the EU doesn't want to do a special, better-than-with-anyone-else type deal, why doesn't it just walk away?'. I know or at least can hazard a guess at some of the reasons but I doubt you'd want to air them in the open. It isn't only ever a case of all the moves, all the blame, all the compromises, all the stick is only ever on one side.
Both sides SHOULD go the extra mile and it shouldn't be difficult when the UK and EU have so much in common and are currently so well aligned and intertwined, striving for the best win-win outcome possible.
Well - I imagine larger countries such as China, America, Russia etc. would love to see a fragmented EU. It is much easier to bully the solitary little guy than the much bigger guy with a load of friends nearby?
Boris has yet to learn that the UK is a little country still trying ( the Boris world view) to act as though it has a big empire, gun boats and big sacks of trinkets for the natives.
Boris even thinks the USA is a friend. Really ! Not where business is concerned ( chlorinated chicken or not).
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
Quoting Ffoorreexx
{quote} EU will do just fine like they always did in many crises before. Only broken union here is UK. How you gonna call your broken union when Scotland will leave?
I am not from the UK, but good try!

The only reason how I know EU is such a dump, is because I spent most of my life in it. And unlike the Europhiles here, I also lived in different countries, so I can compare. Those who only lived in the EU, will never know how much better life can be.
Everyone can see the chart, but only a few can actually read it.
Quoting OnlineAddict
{quote} I am not from the UK, but good try! The only reason how I know EU is such a dump, is because I spent most of my life in it. And unlike the Europhiles here, I also lived in different countries, so I can compare. Those who only lived in the EU, will never know how much better life can be.
You should have asked for assylum in the FIRST European country you arrived in, these other countries you travelled to can NOT accept you. You should have done your homework before you paid the traffickers. SORRY bud !
Quoting barkie
{quote} You should have asked for assylum in the FIRST European country you arrived in, these other countries you travelled to can NOT accept you. You should have done your homework before you paid the traffickers. SORRY bud !
Didn't expect any other reply from a Chinophile.
Everyone can see the chart, but only a few can actually read it.
Quoting DaJoWaBa
{quote} I am curious. We all know you're a Europhile. Nothing wrong with that, particularly if you live in the EU area and no longer in the UK. Your comments always direct criticism at and attempt to belittle the UK and any part of the UK Government. Both your comments on this feed are strongly pointing the finger at the UK/PM, suggesting they're making a meal out of nothing and all the blame is the UK's, ignoring the fact that there are always 2 sides to a negotiating table. My curiosity is whether you can bring yourself to criticise the EU at...
Just a quick reply to your first para - blaming EU?

Code line 1
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EU did not asked for the divorce in the first place It was david cameroon and his overly filled egoistic that spin into boris johnson the greatest liar of all time.


Code line 2
=======
However, I do agree as time drags on, EU will be blamed more and more as this is exactly the tactic that boris is buying. People will soon forget why on earth they want a brexit but the table would be turned that UK had been subjected to bullying......

Code line 3
=======

Infinite While loop of code line 1 and 2.

Losers - we, us, moi the peasant commoners in UK. Winners - the hedge funds suckers and these politicians.

Ultimate losers - OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO COME!
Quoting Blessed-man
{quote} How can they be broke, when they can wake up one morning and decide to print €1trillion. Economics has changed from the era of 60s, 80s
You mean like Usa ?
Quoting Ffoorreexx
{quote} EU will do just fine like they always did in many crises before. Only broken union here is UK. How you gonna call your broken union when Scotland will leave?
Think a lot in England are getting tired with Sturgeon and the SNP. Presume you are aware of the Barnett formula where the Scottish recieve a £10bn subsidy in effect from England. Think its time we let Scotland vote, for either, stay and shut up or leave and the £10bn goes to Northern England. Also no Scottish MPs will mean Boris and the Tory party will find winning elections quite easy
How interesting to see stark similarities between some brexiteers and the little trumpeters. Always hallucinating that people are scheming against them.

Geez, what pills (med) are these people on??
Quoting barkie
{quote} You should have asked for assylum in the FIRST European country you arrived in, these other countries you travelled to can NOT accept you. You should have done your homework before you paid the traffickers. SORRY bud !
Quoting NotBoris
{quote} Just a quick reply to your first para - blaming EU? Code line 1 ======= EU did not asked for the divorce in the first place It was david cameroon and his overly filled egoistic that spin into boris johnson the greatest liar of all time. Code line 2 ======= However, I do agree as time drags on, EU will be blamed more and more as this is exactly the tactic that boris is buying. People will soon forget...
Just a quick reply to your first line. I am not blaming the EU. It's true that the EU didn't ask for the divorce. I didn't ask for mine either but I do have the luxury of time to reflect on why my ex sought greener grass and how much it cost! .
My questions are 'open' with the intention of closing down the finger-pointing and seeking to understand another's viewpoint. Call it emotional intelligence.
Quoting Vancarbon
The paradox ,which I think is hilarious . If it wasn't for the likes of the remainers here,squealing and shouting "foul at every turn" post referendum ,they could have had their BRINO . Their persistent efforts to thwart democracy , their propaganda campaign , their "Wetherspoons drinkers" labels , the unwashed masses who knew no better , their intellectual superiority ( evident on this thread - that excludes Not Boris ) . Well , to all those individuals I'd like to say a big thank you . You've got us where we are " almost...
Too true with MPs too Vancarbon. They had thier chance in 2019 to vote through a soft Brexit, something as a fence sitter that respected the democratic vote I would have voted for. But no, compromise was below them. So now fence sitters like me have become leavers and a hard brexit awaits.
Quoting OnlineAddict
{quote} I am not from the UK, but good try! The only reason how I know EU is such a dump, is because I spent most of my life in it. And unlike the Europhiles here, I also lived in different countries, so I can compare. Those who only lived in the EU, will never know how much better life can be.
Now I extremally curious what are those utopia countries that you lived in comparing with EU "dump"?? Your profile say "Trading From: Cayman Islands" So you comparing shitty irrelevant island with 2.5bil GDP to economical and political superpower EU?
Quoting Ffoorreexx
{quote} Now I extremally curious what are those utopia countries that you lived in comparing with EU "dump"?? Your profile say "Trading From: Cayman Islands" So you comparing shitty irrelevant island with 2.5bil GDP to economical and political superpower EU?
Thats your idea of a good life? Irrelevant numbers on paper? Wow!! Ok then, I understand your perspective now.
Everyone can see the chart, but only a few can actually read it.
relax guys and short gbp any chance you get. don't be greedy staying in too long. a lot of opportunities being created here so enjoy it
I don't possess the knowledge that others on this site have regarding the in's & out's of these negotiations, but it seems to me that there is never any agreement made at a political level, particularly involving the EU, until the final hour has passed. I would certainly never have expected anything else as whatever is the final outcome there will be compromises, which by definition means somebody doesn't get what they want. That somebody would be calling their negotiators all the names under the sun because they didn't fight their corner. The only way you can be seen to have fought in your peoples "best interest" is the fight until the end when you can honestly tell your people you negotiated until there was nothing else to be gained, and whilst not ideal the eventual compromise was in your peoples best interest. Cant be any other way. May not result n a good deal for anyone, but even no deal is actually a deal, just one that involves WTO terms.

Regarding comments made about debt levels etc even before the C19 money printing there was a massive debt in Europe that goes largely un-noticed, somthing called target 2 - if you want to read up on it this is a good starting place https://www.bundesbank.de/en/tasks/payment-systems/target2/target2-balance/target2-balance-626782 - Bundesbank are currently owed TARGET2 claims of Amount: EUR 1,060,263,482,812.05
(As of: 30 November 2020) from other counties who use the Euro - which they can never be repaid. That's another story that may well one day spell the end of the Euro
If the Pound went dawn its fine .. only broadcast Brexit news
for sure there are many who need to see their debt wiped off - thing about Target 2 is it can only ever be cleared by trade surpluses - so the debt owed to Germany will only ever be cleared on T2 if the struggling states find a way of getting into a trade surplus with Germany. The southern Europe states, all lovely countries, have historically relieved their economies by currency devaluation - that avenue is cut off all the time they are in the Euro, which personally believe will increase the gulf between the Northern & Southern European countries.
Backtracking on fisheries means we are not going to blow your fishing boats out of the water until after Christmas.

No wonder us brits never wanted to get married to this bunch in the first place.
Quoting Vancarbon
{quote} .....I wish the people of Europe well . As for Brussels , well , they need to work hard on their public image ( inside and outside of the EU ) . I'm sure there'll be someone along soon enough to point out that the EU popularity is at it's highest . Yes, ok .
Since you mention it...

Attached Image
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Quoting swd
...Why hasn't the EU walked away?.
Because the EU has never represented a No Deal Brexit as "WONDERFUL" as Boris says it will be.
But as a disaster.for all sides.
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That survey must have been carried out on the eu payroll because it's not my experience of speaking to people in Italy, France and Germany

Or on a bunch of 5 year olds with the same mentality
Quoting RossEdwards
{quote} Because the EU has never represented a No Deal Brexit as "WONDERFUL" as Boris says it will be. But as a disaster.for all sides.
If the EU genuinely holds "all the cards" as I think you have alluded too, why would they care?
Quoting swd
{quote} If the EU genuinely holds "all the cards" as I think you have alluded too, why would they care?
Not a difficult question to answer, EU have it’s flaws but at least, it is not deluded like boris and his supporters are, period.
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  • Posted: Dec 14, 2020 2:55am
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    Category: High Impact Breaking News
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