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  • Day-trading tales remind us that humans are poor investors and even worse traders

    From marketwatch.com

    The shocking death of Alex Kearns, a 20-year-old day trader who recently died by suicide, highlights a broader caution to young people: do not get sucked into digital trading platforms — no matter whether they have noble-sounding names or are “free.” You will most likely lose your money or worse. There are better ways to make money. With the exception of people like Warren Buffett, humans are poor investors and even worse traders. Sure, the occasional human might get lucky, but in general, the odds are heavily stacked against you. Unless you have some special information or expertise, you are best off investing ... (full story)

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  • Post #1
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 3:37am Jun 26, 2020 3:37am
  •  Guest
  • | IP XX.XXX.116.119
A great way to make sure a large amount of the world (besides the few 10% who dedicate their time to learning to trade and have financial freedom), and work for a boss that controls their earnings. If banks can trade with people's money, people can do it with their own money instead of getting $5 a year for a crumb of an interest rate.
6
  • Post #2
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 4:07am Jun 26, 2020 4:07am
  •  dustbin
  • | Joined Jan 2013 | Status: Member | 73 Comments
Quoting Guest
Disliked
A great way to make sure a large amount of the world (besides the few 10% who dedicate their time to learning to trade and have financial freedom), and work for a boss that controls their earnings. If banks can trade with people's money, people can do it with their own money instead of getting $5 a year for a crumb of an interest rate.
Ignored
It is a Factual Reality that 80% of traders lose money.

After the laws changed and Brokers were forced to show their percentage of losing clients it was an urban myth. Turns out it was no myth. It is a fact that 80% of traders lose money.

Why else would a reputable forex broker display a clear banner on the top of their website? I'm sure they would love to show some "offers" at that place but like the "cigarette" box it displays this cold, harsh, ugly reality.

here is Pepperstone UK

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  • Post #3
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 4:10am Jun 26, 2020 4:10am
  •  dustbin
  • | Joined Jan 2013 | Status: Member | 73 Comments
here is FXCM
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  • Post #4
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 4:44am Jun 26, 2020 4:44am
  •  Fix-it
  • | Joined Oct 2019 | Status: Member | 88 Comments | Online Now
I agree with professor, the fact are facts. If you learn to trade using fundamentals and technical analysis then as long as you stick to your rules of trades then you will make money, and human emotion are the one which cost you money not the platform. some platform will make money by widening of spreads from time to time. one has to decide what you want......
2
  • Post #5
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 4:47am Jun 26, 2020 4:47am
  •  Mingary
  • Joined Mar 2011 | Status: I should be on your ignore list | 2,014 Comments | Online Now
We all know that this does not apply to retail forex..
look at the posts in FF, so many retail forex millionaires...
1
  • Post #6
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 5:00am Jun 26, 2020 5:00am
  •  NotAtrader
  • Joined Oct 2016 | Status: Not A Trader. A Money Machine. | 2,294 Comments
People who lose their money in FOREX trading are not traders. They just think they can make easy money and try their luck. Thus not not 80% of the traders lose money.

The right definition imo is - 80% of the people who lose lose money in FOREX trading are not traders and have nothing to do in a business they do not understand.

Instead of implementing draconian rules like ESMA did, there should be a qualification program for everyone who wish to trade FOREX. If you pass this program then you are qualified to trade FOREX. This way the FOREX environment will be refined down to knowledgeable and good traders and there will be no need for tons of rules making the trading difficult and destroying the FOREX industry.
6
  • Post #7
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 5:43am Jun 26, 2020 5:43am
  •  renminbi
  • | Joined Nov 2019 | Status: Member | 4 Comments
This is one of the most irrational articles I've read that seems to make all sorts of wild and unfounded associations. It's strange that a data scientist would choose to write this instead of something clean or provable which could actually be useful.
2
  • Post #8
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 5:44am Jun 26, 2020 5:44am
  •  renminbi
  • | Joined Nov 2019 | Status: Member | 4 Comments
Quoting dustbin
Disliked
{quote} It is a Factual Reality that 80% of traders lose money. After the laws changed and Brokers were forced to show their percentage of losing clients it was an urban myth. Turns out it was no myth. It is a fact that 80% of traders lose money. Why else would a reputable forex broker display a clear banner on the top of their website? I'm sure they would love to show some "offers" at that place but like the "cigarette" box it displays this cold, harsh, ugly reality. here is Pepperstone UK {image}
Ignored
You're focusing on the 75% that don't make it that you're not seeing the 25% that do make it. What you're implying applies to any industry, not just trading. Take for example working at a restaurant, or a movie theater, or being a college student. There is always going to be a percentage of people who try to do something but just don't have what it takes. If the success rate the brokers are publishing is a good estimate then I would say that is actually great. That 25% gives plenty of motivation for someone to keep trying given the potential upside if they make it.
  • Post #9
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 5:56am Jun 26, 2020 5:56am
  •  Not-KPMG
  • Joined Jun 2015 | Status: Member | 7,221 Comments
I haven't even read it 😂🐒🐒🐒 but i know it's moronic article.

Sooooo?
Someone lost money... Or suicided.??? Sad.

So???

I hit my parents pinkie on the table leg 😨😨😭😭😭

Legs are evilllllll 🙉🙉🙉
1
  • Post #10
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 6:48am Jun 26, 2020 6:48am
  •  YYZ
  • | Membership Revoked | Joined Nov 2019 | 122 Comments
It should be allowed hedge trading, removed FIFO....brokers insisted on these for their benefits. there is no one to represent traders in front of regulators.
1
  • Post #11
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 7:03am Jun 26, 2020 7:03am
  •  ajantala
  • | Joined Apr 2008 | Status: Member | 33 Comments
Quoting NotAtrader
Disliked
People who lose their money in FOREX trading are not traders. They just think they can make easy money and try their luck. Thus not not 80% of the traders lose money. The right definition imo is - 80% of the people who lose lose money in FOREX trading are not traders and have nothing to do in a business they do not understand. Instead of implementing draconian rules like ESMA did, there should be a qualification program for everyone who wish to trade FOREX. If you pass this program then you are qualified to trade FOREX. This way the FOREX environment...
Ignored
Ergo...FTMO Challenge!
  • Post #12
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 7:05am Jun 26, 2020 7:05am
  •  Yawgmouth
  • | Joined Feb 2020 | Status: Member | 62 Comments
Look, if no one lost money, no one would make money. The winners need a steady supply of idiot traders or there would be no money to be had. It's not just risky, it's the way the game is played and must be played. Come on, it's a zero sum game we play here. Someone wins... someone loses.
1
  • Post #13
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 7:23am Jun 26, 2020 7:23am
  •  DonFF
  • Joined Nov 2014 | Status: Member | 1,792 Comments
Quoting NotAtrader
Disliked
People who lose their money in FOREX trading are not traders. They just think they can make easy money and try their luck. Thus not not 80% of the traders lose money. The right definition imo is - 80% of the people who lose lose money in FOREX trading are not traders and have nothing to do in a business they do not understand. Instead of implementing draconian rules like ESMA did, there should be a qualification program for everyone who wish to trade FOREX. If you pass this program then you are qualified to trade FOREX. This way the FOREX environment...
Ignored
What makes Forex Traders different to Business startups?.....in any country for that matter?

Are the failures destroying the business industry?
  • Post #14
  • Quote
  • Edited at 7:40am Jun 26, 2020 7:28am | Edited at 7:40am
  •  YYZ
  • | Membership Revoked | Joined Nov 2019 | 122 Comments
market makers decide about price and timing. in addition to that broker manipulates trades and decides cost of trading, forbid hedge trading, request FIFO and many other bad things....simply it cannot be said that zero sum trading is fair...As of now everything benefits broker...

Retail trader's trading mistake such as lack of knowledge , discipline and patience no one can fix it except trader itself but where it comes to interactions with broker I think it is fixable if regulator is willing to do so.

at least something for trader like to allow hedge trading , increase leverage, remove FIFO request, make easier to complain against broker to regualtor would be good start; unfortunately there is no one to represent retail trader in front of regulators.
  • Post #15
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 7:37am Jun 26, 2020 7:37am
  •  NotAtrader
  • Joined Oct 2016 | Status: Not A Trader. A Money Machine. | 2,294 Comments
Quoting DonFF
Disliked
{quote} What makes Forex Traders different to Business startups?.....in any country for that matter? Are the failures destroying the business industry?
Ignored
I am afraid you totally misunderstood me.
There is no difference, but since we have such strict requirements then make the requirements correct and right for the traders and for the industry. The point is - if you want to trade then pass a qualification program and if you pass the requirements then you are good to go.

Further I didn’t say that the failures are destroying the industry. Incorrect rules like the ones implemented by corrupt ESMA do.
  • Post #16
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 7:41am Jun 26, 2020 7:41am
  •  NotAtrader
  • Joined Oct 2016 | Status: Not A Trader. A Money Machine. | 2,294 Comments
Quoting ajantala
Disliked
{quote} Ergo...FTMO Challenge!
Ignored
Hell NO!!!

We are talking about r own money. FTMO is for people with a good luck, not for people with professional trading skills.
  • Post #17
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 8:29am Jun 26, 2020 8:29am
  •  Breza
  • Joined Apr 2011 | Status: Member | 164 Comments
I think many both young and experienced traders would have a lot more success having a boss (or wife) for day-to-day control.
Without supervision, they lose discipline depending on their mood, then they easily switch to gambling mode.
  • Post #18
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 8:31am Jun 26, 2020 8:31am
  •  harcos
  • | Joined Mar 2020 | Status: Member | 363 Comments
Quoting NotAtrader
Disliked
People who lose their money in FOREX trading are not traders. They just think they can make easy money and try their luck. Thus not not 80% of the traders lose money. The right definition imo is - 80% of the people who lose lose money in FOREX trading are not traders and have nothing to do in a business they do not understand. Instead of implementing draconian rules like ESMA did, there should be a qualification program for everyone who wish to trade FOREX. If you pass this program then you are qualified to trade FOREX. This way the FOREX environment...
Ignored
Yes and No,
It's true many traders are more akin to gamblers so making people qualify to trade would solve nothing as I believe the errors they make are more often physiological ie: gambling on hopes instead of having a tried and tested plan. Most traders know what they need to know to be successful except for the proper execution of that knowledge.
3
  • Post #19
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 8:36am Jun 26, 2020 8:36am
  •  here2there
  • Joined Dec 2019 | Status: Member | 540 Comments
Quoting NotAtrader
Disliked
...there should be a qualification program for everyone who wish to trade FOREX. If you pass this program then you are qualified to trade FOREX...
Ignored
Corruption would find its way in such a program.
  • Post #20
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 8:46am Jun 26, 2020 8:46am
  •  HBN08
  • Joined Mar 2020 | Status: Shot for the stars aim for the moon | 23 Comments
Hello all im thinking of chaging my broker to a new one can someone say me a good broker that works for Portugal?
Thanks
  • Post #21
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 9:51am Jun 26, 2020 9:51am
  •  webart
  • | Joined Aug 2009 | Status: Member | 217 Comments
Quoting dustbin
Disliked
{quote} It is a Factual Reality that 80% of traders lose money. {image}
Ignored
That sounds like over a reporting period of 3 months, when looked at over 3 years up to 98% of retail traders loose.
3
  • Post #22
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 9:55am Jun 26, 2020 9:55am
  •  Breza
  • Joined Apr 2011 | Status: Member | 164 Comments
Quoting Yawgmouth
Disliked
Look, if no one lost money, no one would make money. The winners need a steady supply of idiot traders or there would be no money to be had. It's not just risky, it's the way the game is played and must be played. Come on, it's a zero sum game we play here. Someone wins... someone loses.
Ignored
Forex does not exist because of retail traders, hedge funds, speculators of various kinds ... but because of countries, their economies, large companies, which have a need to exchange money.
3
  • Post #23
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 10:00am Jun 26, 2020 10:00am
  •  webart
  • | Joined Aug 2009 | Status: Member | 217 Comments
Quoting Breza
Disliked
{quote} Forex does not exist because of retail traders, hedge funds, speculators of various kinds ... but because of countries, their economies, large companies, which have a need to exchange money.
Ignored
Exactly, the market is very close to efficient, finding money in the market's up and down movements is to find an inefficiency in the market. If enough people find the inefficiency it turns into efficiency.
  • Post #24
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 10:28am Jun 26, 2020 10:28am
  •  fontu
  • Joined Mar 2008 | Status: Name real with real own way | 110 Comments
RIP. short trading is near to gambling with whatever analysis done, over 90% correct even & almost proper money management but one some bad day may loss what hard earned . people better become investor rather a trader at all.
  • Post #25
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 11:26am Jun 26, 2020 11:26am
  •  UnBearybull
  • | Joined Aug 2016 | Status: Member | 559 Comments
Quoting Yawgmouth
Disliked
Look, if no one lost money, no one would make money. The winners need a steady supply of idiot traders or there would be no money to be had. It's not just risky, it's the way the game is played and must be played. Come on, it's a zero sum game we play here. Someone wins... someone loses.
Ignored
Just give 17 y.o. kid the motorbike keys on their birthday and let them get on with it?

Better training, warnings about odds of losing first and then if they still want to gamble then OK.

P.s.On Etoro, this would not have happened as you cant go below 0% on your account.
1
  • Post #26
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 11:38am Jun 26, 2020 11:38am
  •  donroyalfx
  • | Joined May 2019 | Status: Member | 58 Comments
Quoting fontu
Disliked
RIP. short trading is near to gambling with whatever analysis done, over 90% correct even & almost proper money management but one some bad day may loss what hard earned . people better become investor rather a trader at all.
Ignored
Its not true please, I am 11years old in this trading and I have my own strategy ...and is working please
1
  • Post #27
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 11:51am Jun 26, 2020 11:51am
  •  Breza
  • Joined Apr 2011 | Status: Member | 164 Comments
i need to continue post 22.

it is theoretically possible for 100% of retailers to win or 100% to lose.
1
  • Post #28
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2020 1:27pm Jun 26, 2020 1:27pm
  •  joyny
  • Joined Nov 2019 | Status: Member | 26 Comments
Article states - only automated trading can succeed after proper quantitative data analysis. Renaissance Technologies do it more than 30 years with an average 60% yearly profits - so it is possible.

Do not trade manually.
  • Post #29
  • Quote
  • Jun 27, 2020 6:02am Jun 27, 2020 6:02am
  •  donroyalfx
  • | Joined May 2019 | Status: Member | 58 Comments
Quoting joyny
Disliked
Article states - only automated trading can succeed after proper quantitative data analysis. Renaissance Technologies do it more than 30 years with an average 60% yearly profits - so it is possible. Do not trade manually.
Ignored
This also is not true ....I have been trading manually for 11years ...
1
  • Post #30
  • Quote
  • Jun 27, 2020 7:51am Jun 27, 2020 7:51am
  •  joyny
  • Joined Nov 2019 | Status: Member | 26 Comments
Quoting donroyalfx
Disliked
{quote} This also is not true ....I have been trading manually for 11years ...
Ignored
Show your stats then please in trade explorer at least we can see % growth.
  • Post #31
  • Quote
  • Jun 27, 2020 1:33pm Jun 27, 2020 1:33pm
  •  Not-KPMG
  • Joined Jun 2015 | Status: Member | 7,221 Comments
Quoting joyny
Disliked
Article states - only automated trading can succeed after proper quantitative data analysis. Renaissance Technologies do it more than 30 years with an average 60% yearly profits - so it is possible. Do not trade manually.
Ignored
What??

5% profit a month is kids play. Manual.

I make that much now (barely open charts) , and over 10% too when I wanted to trade more.😲👏

It's all practice and patience.🐢

No, not everyone has the brains 😲😲🐒
  • Post #32
  • Quote
  • Jun 27, 2020 3:39pm Jun 27, 2020 3:39pm
  •  joyny
  • Joined Nov 2019 | Status: Member | 26 Comments
Quoting Not-KPMG
Disliked
{quote} What?? 5% profit a month is kids play. Manual. I make that much now (barely open charts) , and over 10% too when I wanted to trade more. It's all practice and patience. No, not everyone has the brains
Ignored
Ok show your consistent results with adequate risk in trade explorer please.
1
  • Post #33
  • Quote
  • Jun 27, 2020 11:01pm Jun 27, 2020 11:01pm
  •  4for4
  • Joined Apr 2017 | Status: 38737526 / 29052019 | 238 Comments
Manually done ... (my last 14 trades) ...

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  • Post #34
  • Quote
  • Jun 28, 2020 9:27am Jun 28, 2020 9:27am
  •  Not-KPMG
  • Joined Jun 2015 | Status: Member | 7,221 Comments
Quoting joyny
Disliked
{quote} Ok show your consistent results with adequate risk in trade explorer please.
Ignored
Let me think.. ....

I should compromise my privacy, by connecting a REAL account to FF here.???
My broker etc will learn my other activities, like having good many bitcoin.... My wife sometime will find out, just as I'm preparing for divorce.....?? 💰💰

But

I'll earn the fake respect of random guys in funny website??? 😊😜😂😂😂

Let me think again ?? ?? 🤔 🤔🤔🤔

.
..
...
....

How about NO
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  • Post #35
  • Quote
  • Jun 28, 2020 9:37am Jun 28, 2020 9:37am
  •  Not-KPMG
  • Joined Jun 2015 | Status: Member | 7,221 Comments
Quoting 4for4
Disliked
Manually done ... (my last 14 trades) ... {image}
Ignored


Seems good...

But these are just closed orders??

You may have 700 positions open running at 10000000 loss
  • Post #36
  • Quote
  • Jun 28, 2020 9:42am Jun 28, 2020 9:42am
  •  Not-KPMG
  • Joined Jun 2015 | Status: Member | 7,221 Comments
4for4
Why hold gold for such a small profit???

I had lots of gold longs from 1725-35 to about 1765.

During lies and red stocks I was OK to wait...
  • Post #37
  • Quote
  • Jun 28, 2020 10:16am Jun 28, 2020 10:16am
  •  4for4
  • Joined Apr 2017 | Status: 38737526 / 29052019 | 238 Comments
Quoting Not-KPMG
Disliked
{quote} Seems good... But these are just closed orders?? You may have 700 positions open running at 10000000 loss
Ignored
Waiting for FF to link MT5 to their Trade Explorer ...
1
  • Post #38
  • Quote
  • Jun 28, 2020 10:36am Jun 28, 2020 10:36am
  •  4for4
  • Joined Apr 2017 | Status: 38737526 / 29052019 | 238 Comments
Quoting Not-KPMG
Disliked
4for4 Why hold gold for such a small profit??? I had lots of gold longs from 1725-35 to about 1765. During lies and red stocks I was OK to wait...
Ignored
Floating-profit belongs to the market. Closed-profit is ours to keep ...
1
  • Post #39
  • Quote
  • Jun 28, 2020 4:23pm Jun 28, 2020 4:23pm
  •  Not-KPMG
  • Joined Jun 2015 | Status: Member | 7,221 Comments
Quoting 4for4
Disliked
{quote} Floating-profit belongs to the market. Closed-profit is ours to keep ...
Ignored


I heard this in the voice of Brando in Godfather movie.

You have my respect and friendship pal
1
  • Post #40
  • Quote
  • Jun 28, 2020 4:36pm Jun 28, 2020 4:36pm
  •  gepards
  • | Joined May 2020 | Status: Member | 1 Comment
Quoting Not-KPMG
Disliked
You have my respect and friendship pal
Ignored
Fake respect to fake "successful" trader from a fake "successful" trader
  •  Guest
  • | IP X.XXX.108.188
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