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  #70703  
Old Aug 6, 2010 12:02am
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleguy View Post
don't get married! don't do it! run, run far away from it before you too get suckered in!

But what do I know?
Thanks for the heads up, guys.. couldnt have posted this a month ago, coulda ya? >:/

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This wasnt my trade, this is my friend who I have been (slowly) showing the ways of j16. Although it seems that maybe she should be teaching me.

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She is a breakout/retest/enter on break girl Shows the value of trailing stops, rather than getting out as soon as you hit an arbitary number - you never know when the Russians might act a fool and practically stuff money into your account!

*edit* link http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ns-spread.html
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Last edited by joelcf, Aug 6, 2010 12:16am
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  #70708  
Old Aug 6, 2010 2:23am
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  662 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeChaos View Post
wow, she trails really well.
It's embarassingly simple - hide stop behind the last swing low, move it on a range breakout or a big move.


Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeChaos View Post
maybe u can introduce me to her
"break out girl, meet breakout boy"
breakout girl/boy sounds like a superhero name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghous View Post
WOW!
Ugh, tell me about it! The best part is getting to hear about this trade...every...single...day.

Watch me and learn from a professional, Mr Banker Man... you just need to keep it simple, STUPID!

beginner's luck
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  #70713  
Old Aug 6, 2010 2:48am
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  662 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghous View Post
yeah, let her brag about it a bit Joel, she is obviously under estimating you as a trader
nah, it's all in good fun. She is just a smartass. Then again, if I caught a move like that after only a couple of months, I'd be bragging too

Is that for The Constrictor? I've been pretty busy lately, so falling well behind in my bookmarked threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeChaos View Post
oh yeah, why didnt i think of that?!
has she joined already?
is she a banker too?
I could probably convince her to lurk.
And no, she does something socially beneficial with her time (psychologist-in-training)

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeChaos View Post
hahah...
i think we traders misbehave more than the trends do
I suspect you may be right.

Have a good weekend guys.
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  #70861  
Old Aug 8, 2010 8:03pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinbar View Post
This Peter character , has not even apologized, That speaks louder than words about this person.
Having a quick look through his thread and I wouldnt be too worried - it seems kind of like the j16 thread's 'slow' cousin who rides the short bus and has to wear a helmet to school.

You are miles ahead of the game
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  #71182  
Old Aug 10, 2010 7:39pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unlv_tj View Post
With that said, I don't know anyone who trades for a living either. I believe it is possible, but it takes a rare combination of a large trading account (lots of money), years of hard work, years of self pyschological analysis, and the will to stay with it all.
I know multiple people who trade for a living, and do it very well - and aside from the 'hard work' part, none of them match those criteria.

Maybe it is selection bias, maybe not.

The things you listed are what most amateur traders think they need to suceed - a big account, book psychology, perserverence, experience. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that it is because those are things that a 'regular' person can easily address... and they are all completely subjective. So you always have an excuse for why you arent making money.

Hey look, I did my own psychoanalysis!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adilius07 View Post
Well in about 3 years I have lost two accounts. Options and Futures Accounts. 4K and 3K. And I consider this EDUCATION.
That isnt an education. That's common sense.
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  #71190  
Old Aug 10, 2010 9:45pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unlv_tj View Post
I don't see how someone can trade for a living with less than $200,000. If you can make 20% a year, that is $40,000 before taxes, that really isn't a large income.
Would you bother trading for a living to make 20% a year? My equity portfolio makes that, and I look at it *maybe* once a week, if I'm not being lazy.

Your problem isnt account size. It is position sizing and compounding frequency.

You wanna take 1 trade a month on the daily chart for 2% and make your 20%pa, that's fine - but I dont see how you are 'trading for a living'. That's like me claiming I am a pro golfer because I play every second weekend and the loser picks up the bar tab.

And just to add some numbers - the spread of accounts from people I know who actually trade for a living is from $40k to at least a million (but no one really knows, since he is a secretive bastard who doesnt even tell his wife).

If I were a gambling man - which I definitely am - I would wager that not only do most people not even know if they are profitable, but they wouldnt even know how to determine whether they are or arent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unlv_tj View Post
If trading for a living doesn't require...
- Large Account
- book pyschology
- perserverance
- experience

Then I would LOVE to know WHAT it does take. Please fill me in, because I need to know where I am going wrong.
A consistently profitable methodology which gives an adequate volume of entry signals, and an effective position sizing scheme for your method. That's it.

Preferably, you would rather your method be low(er) variance, since that is going to affect your position sizing and hence your returns, but beggars/choosers/etc.

The other stuff has its place, sure - but people put so much emphasis on the icing and very little on the cake.

Is it important to not get mad and take dumb trades? Or to hold a losing trade into your stop when you could have cut it early? Definitely. But let's face it, that's one trade. Unless you are doing it over and over and over again, changing that one thing isnt going to suddenly rocket you to profitability.

Other than that? They are all exceptionally intelligent, very analytical and take more trades in a week than most people here do in a year. At least one of those can be achieved by anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinbar View Post
Hope you get your more steam for your Internet connection.
Pretty sure at this point in time we should all chip in and buy Jaroo (and Mike) dedicated connections
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Last edited by joelcf, Aug 10, 2010 10:10pm Reason: typographical tiger
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  #71194  
Old Aug 10, 2010 10:59pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unlv_tj View Post
That is one angle not discussed here because it is pretty advaced.
Absolutely.

The rules set out (ie, 2% or less) are to stop newbies losing their account due to -EV trading and variability ('luck' - or, more accurately, the chance that a bad series of trades will bankrupt an otherwise profitable approach). The former diminishes with time/experience/demo trading, but not many people look at the latter.

Maybe it is my biases showing through, but I think the position sizing part is just as important as the approach. It's just alot harder to work with and understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unlv_tj View Post
As for the quote above, my honest goal is to get to 20% a year, that is it. I think it is attainable. I can easily get by on $40,000 a year in my home town, and I can get a $200,000 account soon enough.
I think this kind of trading is an excellent way to attain that. It's a nice portfolio enhancer and a bit of diversification.

With the win rate you posted before, it sounds like you are pretty much there with the trading approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unlv_tj View Post
I don't know if I will ever do better than this, but 20% a year would be remarkable to me. After 10 years of being in the markets (Edward Jones, JP Morgan) and owning real estate, I am probably averageing 5% a year at best
What kind of approach are you taking with this part of your funds? Something like an index fund?
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  #71196  
Old Aug 10, 2010 11:05pm
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My gun control is a steady hand.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeChaos View Post
i believe u can trade for a living with $500
Five hundred bucks?!
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  #71200  
Old Aug 10, 2010 11:23pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chowur View Post
Hi all, thought I might share this with the group: my wife just came home from work for lunch and suggested that I get a job!
WTF..... Im three parts throught my first beer now-needed something to settle my nerves.
Have you any comments?

chow
Obviously, you should question her and find out why she took so long to get home to prepare your lunch.

Sandwiches dont make themselves, you know.
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  #71339  
Old Aug 11, 2010 9:42pm
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My gun control is a steady hand.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lord View Post
I have a little target. Hope it goes well..

Attachment 524143
That isn't even a falling knife you are trying to catch there. More of a falling chainsaw.
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  #71703  
Old Aug 15, 2010 7:47pm
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My gun control is a steady hand.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
My question is;
If there really is such an astronomically low chance of success in private trading then whats the point in trying to begin with?
a) There isnt. His argument is based on terrible logic. It's ridiculous to equate the two, as if skill in trading is a game of chance. It's like saying that there are only x spots in the NFL draft each year, and therefore me and Micheal Vick had the same 'chance' of success in the 2001 draft.

b) Even if there was, there are many, many more successful traders out there than lottery winners. Just because they arent on FF (or in that guy's thread, lol) doesnt mean they dont exist.

*edit* to be clear, I dont think what he is saying is a bad thing; aside from that claim it was good stuff. There are so many people who are just fooling themselves when they claim they are 'learning the forexes to trade for a living', as if reading some threads on the internet and then trying real hard will suddenly translate into millions. And it's good that someone it being brutally honest about it.
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