Forex Factory (http://www.forexfactory.com/forum.php)
-   Rookie Talk (http://www.forexfactory.com/forumdisplay.php?f=56)
-   -   It is possible to make 2000 from 200 in Forex? It is easy or very difficult? (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=232154)

FxMike Apr 17, 2010 6:19pm | Post# 1

It is possible to make 2000 from 200 in Forex? It is easy or very difficult?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Welcome dear reader, the purpose of this post is about the experiences of those who are successful in Forex.

I know and trading Forex for almost 2 years, but recently these past 4 months I began to study hard to achieve success on my own. Before I try different signal services and automatic trading system and services, But none were good.

My investment so far is around 2500 usd in different brokers and services. Most of my investments was in a popular broker currently offers a automatic trading service, was where I lost the greatest investment, about 1500 usd.

1 months ago, after hours of surfing, I found this great community ForexFactory and immediately I began to read and try out different strategies, but I just tested 2 strategies. The first, Sonic R. System: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=114792 And the second, which I learned much not only on trading, but also on the necessary discipline, etc: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=224697 (I attach a excel with the results of the best week with this strategy)

My intention with this post is to leave a question to all those who are successful in Forex, and learn from their experiences, the question is:

Is it possible to convert 200 usd in 2000? How long would it take? Please share your experience.

I am currently a corporate finance adviser, and my intentions for the future is to devote exclusively to Forex. I also want to make many contributions to this community as my experience will bear fruit to share.

Thanks, and have a nice day.
DEMO History (with TheDance System).xls

pipmutt Apr 18, 2010 4:48am | Post# 2


I
s it possible to convert 200 usd in 2000? How long would it take? Please share your experience.
At an average of 16% per week, compounded, it should take around 16 weeks. That's assuming you don't blow up first, I noticed that despite an ~18% drawdown you continued trading the same size. Also was there a bit of overtrading on the 8th?

I am currently a corporate finance adviser
Can you name the firm, I'd like to short their stock

Intensity Apr 18, 2010 5:25am | Post# 3

1 months ago, after hours of surfing, I found this great community ForexFactory
Now that's hard work ! Let's hope the other participants recognize the true scale of your efforts



More seriously, when do you intend to start trading full-time ? You might hit some bumps at the start of your journey buy it will certainly get more interesting later on.

TJPLD Apr 18, 2010 6:34am | Post# 4

Is it possible to convert 200 usd in 2000? How long would it take? Please share your experience.

If you still ask yourself such questions you should probably stay away from trading live at that point.

pipmutt Apr 18, 2010 7:02am | Post# 5


If you still ask yourself such questions......
It's worse than that, he's asking other people!

Intensity Apr 18, 2010 7:04am | Post# 6

It's worse than that, he's asking other people!
He's still young & learning, please be clement.

Or, he's trying to show in a few weeks that he made it and that he will sell his system via PM...

pipmutt Apr 18, 2010 7:12am | Post# 7

He's still young & learning, please be clement.

Or, he's trying to show in a few weeks that he made it and that he will sell his system via PM...
Clement, sure, but you'd expect a 'corporate finance adviser' would know better than to even think of asking a question like that. I guess it explains the recent financial crisis if we've got that kind of experience advising corporates about finance!

Intensity Apr 18, 2010 7:16am | Post# 8

Clement, sure, but you'd expect a 'corporate finance adviser' would know better than to even think of asking a question like that. I guess it explains the recent financial crisis if we've got that kind of experience advising corporates!
Quite frankly, when you read the emails written by the financial companies' top management published on Zero Hedge or Dealbreaker, you'll realize that they often are at FxMike's level

Love your sig.

pipmutt Apr 18, 2010 7:27am | Post# 9

Quite frankly, when you read the emails written by the financial companies' top management published on Zero Hedge or Dealbreaker, you'll realize that they often are at FxMike's level

Love your sig.
lol, cheers, that's Soros wisdom not mine

You're right. It never ceases to amaze me how some of those people command 7-figure salaries plus bonuses! If they're the cream I'd hate to see the average!

Barclays must have one of the highest concentration of financial incompetents that I've ever seen, and that's not just retail, that's at corporate level. If you or me ran a business like that we'd be bankrupt within a couple of months!

Deusomega Apr 18, 2010 12:52pm | Post# 10

Sure it's possible! But definitely not probable.

FxMike Apr 18, 2010 4:58pm | Post# 11

At an average of 16% per week, compounded, it should take around 16 weeks. That's assuming you don't blow up first, I noticed that despite an ~18% drawdown you continued trading the same size. Also was there a bit of overtrading on the 8th?


Can you name the firm, I'd like to short their stock
jaja, being a corporate finance adviser has nothing to do with Forex, believe me. Perhaps an investment adviser know about Forex.

What I show in the excel attachment is by way of example on the information I would like to know from the experiences of those with consistent results (not my case) in Forex.

Perhaps the main point of my question was not understood, it can be for my poor English. I just want to know about concrete results. I personally think that it is possible (200 to 2000 usd, ie 1,000% from a minimum capital for a mini account), but I also know that for a retail forex investor can be doubly or triply difficult than for a bank (provided over the course of 200 to 2000 usd, or 200,000 to 2,000,000 which would be right for a bank), as many of our positions are taken by the same broker as counterparty, and all that it implies (for a good reader, a few word) żDoes anyone here achieve a similar feat? Overcoming all obstacles to enter the Forex further as a retail investor.

The best result I know so far is this news:

"The best manager this year was Anton Trefolev, better known by his nom de AntFX, which has shown in his account-PAMM over 11 000% return in two months ..."

Amazing, right?

Razor_trader Apr 18, 2010 8:04pm | Post# 12


The best result I know so far is this news:

"The best manager this year was Anton Trefolev, better known by his nom de AntFX, which has shown in his account-PAMM over 11 000% return in two months ..."

Amazing, right?
Yes it is amazing, what will be even more amazing is whether they publish his name in BOLD when he turns that 11000% into Zero. There have been far far far fewer, less than 1% of traders who have managed those returns in comparison to people who have turn a $5 lotto ticket into multi-millions. The returns are not the issue, the issue is the manner in which gains are made and there high improbable nature to stay that way. To make such gains in a short period of time it would be major risk, small profit taking and large (if any) stops. The ultimate recipe for a disaster and the longer you push the boundaries, the more likely you are to becoming a statistic. Besides what is not mentioned in the quote is the starting capital.

If you want to turn $200 into $2000 in the shortest period of time then yes it is possible, sustainable though I think not and you dont even need a great system, just some high risk and luck because if you think making 1000% comes down to a system then you might want to finish before you start.

Razor

Ronald Raygun Apr 18, 2010 8:16pm | Post# 13

In short....


Possible? yes.

Easy? Depends on how well you can make money on a coin toss.

nanningbob Apr 18, 2010 8:41pm | Post# 14

I have learned the hard way that Yes I can increase an account 100% over a short period of time but the same method can also lose an account over a short period of time. I have found though that if I keep the margin size and lot size down I can average 5-15% a month. If I get into troube I keep enough margin to get my self out. Can I use the same system and go for a bigger cut yes but then I risk margining out my account. So there is a risk to reward factor. Personally the way I trade now, I may take losses now and then but I dont risk the account.

Deusomega Apr 18, 2010 9:28pm | Post# 15

In short....


Possible? yes.

Easy? Depends on how well you can make money on a coin toss.
Exits this is an interesting exercise to say the least.

forextrader01 Apr 18, 2010 10:51pm | Post# 16

Can you name the firm, I'd like to short their stock

pipmutt Apr 19, 2010 1:02am | Post# 17

jaja, being a corporate finance adviser has nothing to do with Forex, believe me.
No, but one would expect a corporate finance adviser to have a bit of general financial common sense!

but I also know that for a retail forex investor can be doubly or triply difficult than for a bank
If anything the reverse is true, but that's another discussion....

The best result I know so far is this news:

"The best manager this year was Anton Trefolev, better known by his nom de AntFX, which has shown in his account-PAMM over 11 000% return in two months ..."

Amazing, right?
As others have mentioned that kind of return is probably unsustainable, it's more like a party trick than serious sustainable trading.

Exactly what is it you're trying to find out? If it's the original question about how long it would take to turn 200 into 2000 then I think that's already been answered hasn't it?

Intensity Apr 19, 2010 2:32am | Post# 18

If anything the reverse is true, but that's another discussion....
That seems evident, otherwise GS and al wouldn't have to be that corrupt in order to make some money.
Trading is hard, cheating & lying is easy.
Every corporate finance adviser knows that

FxMike Apr 19, 2010 10:28am | Post# 19

Yes it is amazing, what will be even more amazing is whether they publish his name in BOLD when he turns that 11000% into Zero. There have been far far far fewer, less than 1% of traders who have managed those returns in comparison to people who have turn a $5 lotto ticket into multi-millions. The returns are not the issue, the issue is the manner in which gains are made and there high improbable nature to stay that way. To make such gains in a short period of time it would be major risk, small profit taking and large (if any) stops....
Thanks Razor, interesting your answer. My point is that if someone can make 11,000% in 2 months, then 1.000% (or just 500%, which is still excellent) in, say, 3 months should not be a big deal (for someone well-prepared)

Ronald Raygun Apr 19, 2010 11:04am | Post# 20

Thanks Razor, interesting your answer. My point is that if someone can make 11,000% in 2 months, then 1.000% (or just 500%, which is still excellent) in, say, 3 months should not be a big deal (for someone well-prepared)
Then what's holding you back? Go ahead and do it.

fugly Apr 19, 2010 1:50pm | Post# 21

Well I read in one of the threads in the commercial section RR claimed he traded $200 to $250000 in one year!!

So its definitely possible.

Razor_trader Apr 19, 2010 6:35pm | Post# 22

Thanks Razor, interesting your answer. My point is that if someone can make 11,000% in 2 months, then 1.000% (or just 500%, which is still excellent) in, say, 3 months should not be a big deal (for someone well-prepared)
Your still so far off. No big deal for someone well prepared. If someone came to you and showed you a 1000% increase in a customers account in 3 months and asked you to invest $10000 would you....

I can tell you now, I would slap them and tell them to wake up and get over the result. It is definatly possible to make, there are enough people here who have done similiar things however it is completely IMPROBABLE for such aggressive results to continue. The key ingredient for such large gains is risk, and this is on a number of fronts;

Risk 1: Massive risks per trade on a % of account basis. Most say that 2% is enough but these people usually live in the 10% or better category. Say goodbye to the account in the coming months

Risk 2: No Stop losses. They believe they know where the market is going so they dont employee a stop loss and subsequently will often go into a decent drawdown, unless they hedge which is just another element of risk, and then they party when after 200-300+ points of drawdown they take something like 20 pips profit.

Risk 3: Much the same as the above however they do employ a Stop loss, however it stinks so they put it on some corner 300 pips away however the profit taking is usually quicker than a Chuck Norris round kick to the head (and nothing is quicker than that) as they are happy to overcome the spread and take profit before 10 pips has a chance to evolve.

Risk 4: See Risk 1 and combine it with either Risk 2 or Risk 3 and you have the product of quick short profits that accumulate rapidly, Provided they dont take a loss which is most cases will wipe out a huge chunk of you account and take you back to the drawing board.

No seeing that you are financial advisor I can tell you this. If you were giving me and my business advice that had mentioned anything you have written I would have kicked you out of my office. There is no need for 1000% gains. The only ones who desire it are the penny traders who are looking for gratification from 1c per pip. Trade a real account, over 100k and you will quickly come to appreciate the simplistic beauty of smaller rewards. You dont need to risk you account unless you truly believe that gambling can pay off in the long run.

Razor

ForexQuant Apr 19, 2010 7:51pm | Post# 23

Welcome dear reader, the purpose of this post...
Just one best performance week is not enough to judge the performance. Further more your best performance week has only profit factor of 1.48 with almost 20% drawndown! So do not be surprised if you lose 50% of your money or even more in your worst performance week.

KelvinLee Apr 19, 2010 11:07pm | Post# 24

Hi FXMike

$200 is quite a small amount to start with. If you are doing proper risk management which all traders should be doing. You can only trade microlot which is $0.10 per lot size.

To turn 200 to 2000 may need about six months at minimum. This is based on you risking 3% of your account every trade which is only $6 which is equivalent to 60 pips stop loss allowed per microlot trade.

Let say you are about to make 120 pips which is equal to $12, it may take you sometime to fulfill $2,000 target.

It is always good to start slow and learn throughout the journey. The faster you climb, the harder you fall.

Good Luck

jest1081 Apr 19, 2010 11:09pm | Post# 25

its easier to make 2000 become 200. trust me.

pipmutt Apr 20, 2010 2:10am | Post# 26

Thanks Razor, interesting your answer. My point is that if someone can make 11,000% in 2 months, then 1.000% (or just 500%, which is still excellent) in, say, 3 months should not be a big deal (for someone well-prepared)
Call security, there's a crazy guy in the building!


Razor_trader Apr 20, 2010 8:14am | Post# 27

Hi FXMike

To turn 200 to 2000 may need about six months at minimum.

Good Luck
There is no minimum. You could trade the maximum your margin will allow and take a 10 pips time and time again and provided you are lucky you could probably do it in a day which is really no better than allow a 6 month minimum for a 1000% increase. There are so many reason why market speculators go bust and the above comment is one. Trading correctly it should take, with great money management a few years, but no one wants to hear that which is why small money traders are better of heading to the casino...

Razor

Intensity Apr 20, 2010 8:25am | Post# 28

its easier to make 2000 become 200. trust me.
Hahahaha


So true, unfortunately !

Razor_trader Apr 20, 2010 8:30am | Post# 29

nothing is impossible though,but i definitely know it's no walk in the park.i started an account with 2300 dollars sometimes ago and the acct came down to about 700 before i actually started making progress with it.but probably that's because of my own inadequacy.but if you can really find good money management,risk management and a good trading strategy that works,i guess it shouldn't take a month to get there but i'd probably not want to think about it.it is possible though
Majority of people find that an account heads south far quicker, and far earlier than it heads north. I remember starting with 10k after years of testing and demo trading only to find myself down over 4k within 6 months. I know and knew the reasons, most of it being the emotional sense of having real money involved and taking profits when I could and not accepting losses when I should have. It took me well beyond a year to get back to 10k so provided what you have done for years yielded results in practise then there should be enough reason to keep on plugging away.

Its the plugging away that I find the most intriguing part of trading but I guess for others it is the get rich as soon as possible or blow up trying aspect that has them going. Guess im just not an adrenlin junky, I could never understand the person who jumps out of perfectly good plane

ToxicChili Apr 20, 2010 10:04am | Post# 30

Okay, firstly I'm new here so hi everyone

Trading with low capital is both a skill and a gamble. about 5+ years back I wrote an article on low capital trading, I will maybe try and find it at some point.

As many have said, its possible, but...

Basically with £200 (or $200) you have to take more risk than anyone would advise. Its pretty much a make or break scenario and you need a lot of luck.

Often where people fail is when they reach their target, they think 'Hey, I just turned £200 into £2000, that was easy' They think they have mastered trading and are pretty much invincible. They then try to carry on and disaster happens, no problem, they did it once. So they try again, make a little head way, then boom. Its all gone again. Soon enough they have funded their account with £2k and lost it all.

If you are going to try low capital, make sure you have a realistic expectations(as realistic as it can be with this amount of money). Work out how you are going to trade this money. Spread betting, forex broker, bookmaker, etc... Create some rules that you must stick to i.e. max amount of risk per capital (be it 5% 10% or whatever). Targets are pretty much useless, its very easy to say I made 20% gain in capital this week, so therefore will make this every week. Monitor your progress, not your targets. As said by others dreaming about futures profits will get you nowhere.

This is the most important rule that you must follow no matter what. RISK ONLY MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE, because there is a very real risk that you will LOSE it.

If you are determined to give it ago, do it for fun and nothing more. Perhaps try trading forex exotic options - i.e. no touch, double touch, etc.. type bets. For example you choose a currency, you then decided that this currency will not hit a predetermined value within 'x' days.

Once you reach you goal. STOP. rethink the situation (withdraw your initial £200) and create a new plan as to how you will go forward with this money.

The other option, is take the £200 down the casino, place it on red or black, then leave the casino either taking away your win or leaving with a lighter wallet. If you win you can put the £200 into your account and go on from there lol

FxMike Apr 20, 2010 1:44pm | Post# 31

Then what's holding you back? Go ahead and do it.
Thanks RR, I'm already trying.

FxMike Apr 20, 2010 2:08pm | Post# 32

Your still so far off. No big deal for someone well prepared. If someone came to you and showed you a 1000% increase in a customers account in 3 months and asked you to invest $10000 would you....

I can tell you now, I would slap them and tell them to wake up and get over the result. It is definatly possible to make, there are enough people here who have done similiar things however it is completely IMPROBABLE for such aggressive results to continue. The key ingredient for such large gains is risk, and this is on a number of fronts;

Risk...
Thanks Razor, but about my profession, you are a little confused. And about the risks of Forex that you mention, I suffered all with automated systems that comment in the first post (the lots were set at 10k, but the SL were over 300 pips and TP averages just 20 pips) In correction of these risks, TheDance System only used a maximun of 19 pips SL, but the TP are subjective and limited.

This week I'm trying Sonic R system, with a ratio of 2:1 (TP:SL) or at least 1:1 when I approach a level SR. The typical StopLoss is 40 pips. So far, the assertiveness of the direction of the operation is very good.

With regard to risk operation, my goal is 0.75% or lower risk for operation, and a potential gain of 0.75% to 2%. The rest depends on the frequency between operations, having a probability of success of at least 60% All this for REAL because the DEMO currently does not meet this.

If the week continued as before, will share the results.

FxMike Apr 20, 2010 2:14pm | Post# 33

Hi FXMike

$200 is quite a small amount to start with. If you are doing proper risk management which all traders should be doing. You can only trade microlot which is $0.10 per lot size.

To turn 200 to 2000 may need about six months at minimum. This is based on you risking 3% of your account every trade which is only $6 which is equivalent to 60 pips stop loss allowed per microlot trade.

Let say you are about to make 120 pips which is equal to $12, it may take you sometime to fulfill $2,000 target.

It is always good to start slow and learn throughout...
Thank you very much, honest and friendly response.

FxMike Apr 20, 2010 2:35pm | Post# 34

No, but one would expect a corporate finance adviser to have a bit of general financial common sense!


If anything the reverse is true, but that's another discussion....



As others have mentioned that kind of return is probably unsustainable, it's more like a party trick than serious sustainable trading.

Exactly what is it you're trying to find out? If it's the original question about how long it would take to turn 200 into 2000 then I think that's already been answered hasn't it?
ToxicChili's response was interesting.
Common sense that I develop in my profession has no relevance in Forex, almost none of what I knew about potential maximum profitability applies in this market.

FxMike Apr 20, 2010 2:41pm | Post# 35

Call security, there's a crazy guy in the building!

Sorry, I meant 5000% in 3 months should not be a big deal for someone with 10+V,

ToxicChili Apr 20, 2010 3:59pm | Post# 36

Sorry, I meant 5000% in 3 months should not be a big deal for someone with 10+V,
Another thing worth looking at when trading small capital is the deposit bonus, some sites offer a certain percentage bonus after you have made 'x' amount of trades. It may not seem like much, but can help set you off in the right direction.

Okay people may think this is silly and it isn't trading, but getting a £100 on a £200 at least gives you a little bit extra and you need all the help you can get, just be sure you read the Terms and Conditions correctly to make sure you qualify for the bonus.

pipmutt Apr 20, 2010 5:16pm | Post# 37

Sorry, I meant 5000% in 3 months should not be a big deal for someone with 10+V,
Nah not me, I just plod along making a few percent a month, low risk, smooth equity curve, bit boring but that's trading for ya!

Seeing as the average return on 'regular' investments is around 4% per year I don't think I'm doing so bad, obviously not in your league but then I don't have the experience of a corporate finance advisor.

By the way you're not French are you?

Trsott Apr 20, 2010 5:52pm | Post# 38

I think the point that we're arguing is irrelevant to the question:

Of course it's possible!!! Is it likely? Well...that's entirely a different argument, and I think where most of us give a little resistance to the thought.

Am I saying I could do? Maybe. Is there a chance I'd end up with $0? Yes...and if you haven't had the winnings already to boost your confidence, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to do much but lose it all too.

domino Apr 20, 2010 5:59pm | Post# 39

Sorry, I meant 5000% in 3 months should not be a big deal for someone with 10+V,

hey first off youll find alot of people here with 10+V dont make money..
2ndly your crazy if your honestly serious about those gains being possible let me assure you.. that yes they are possible ... you may get from 200 to 2000 you may even make it to 4000.. but if you keep trading like that I promise you there is about a 99.9999999(anyone know how to put a remainder bar over a 9)% chance that you will completely distroy your account..
3rdly if an investment advisor tries to put you in anything close to a forex investment.. leave immediately open the phone book and find a new investment advisor..seriously should never happen..
4th I would also like to know what financial firm this is so I may short as well... im thinking lehmanesk failure...
5th im also assuming your reason for coming on to the board is hey guys look how awesome my trading is because im just learning and am awesome.. look at me.. and I promise that emotion in trading like this in trading is bad it will humble you..

which brings me to my point - be careful what you read be careful of what you think you know.. and becareful with your money use only safe money and have fun learning dont let this break you

Razor_trader Apr 20, 2010 7:02pm | Post# 40

Thanks Razor, but about my profession, you are a little confused. And about the risks of Forex that you mention, I suffered all with automated systems that comment in the first post (the lots were set at 10k, but the SL were over 300 pips and TP averages just 20 pips) In correction of these risks, TheDance System only used a maximun of 19 pips SL, but the TP are subjective and limited.

This week I'm trying Sonic R system, with a ratio of 2:1 (TP:SL) or at least 1:1 when I approach a level SR. The typical StopLoss is 40 pips. So far, the assertiveness...
I only write what I need to write because I have been there, done that and can tell you that it doesnt work in the end. What I have found with high risk, high leveraged trading is that profound results are great, when they happen HOWEVER the game is to find an edge that you can exploit over the course of TIME.

If you develope or tag along with a system that has a definable, exploitable edge that has been proven over history then the last thing you need to do it put down more than 3-4% and that amount is on the great setups otherwise you only need around 2%. 2% allows for active growth of steady moves while allowing a larger than normal string of losses to not kill off the account. A big part of Trading is about managing losses, that is it is the only thing that you have a little control over. Before you execute a trade you decide 'what is the most I feel comfortable loosing', so by employing a SL at point X you literally have control over the loosing aspect. The rest is up to where the money is taking the markets and you will take profits depending on current market behavior. If you can do the above over time it will give you something that will allow you to trade larger accounts, trust and confidence.

Risky trading and making exorbitant amounts of growth will not give one the ability to trade larger accounts (unless one is already wealthy and the amount invested has the same meaning as $200) with ongoing trust and confidence. It also (risky trading) requires one to sit in front of there computer, usually biting their fingernails to below the first knuckle, which is also a sign.

Forgot the hype, forget the bulls&^t and pay no attention to the claims of high gains. They come at a price and that price usually catches up with the lucky few should they choose to push the boundaries too far. I would personally fell more comfortable risking 1% of $100,000 then risk 10% of $200, even though the underlying risk in the first instance is about 5000% greater. I would also be far happier in taking the profits, which in the same case would be about 5000% better.

Razor


© Forex Factory