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FXSurfer Feb 20, 2009 7:38pm | Post# 16

Short TF P&F? Sounds good guys!

Hope to see more,
Brent

giraia_br Feb 20, 2009 9:06pm | Post# 17

i read in another forum, that Wycoff traded intraday without volume, using only PnF.

then i read FTI saying that PnF was only for super long term trade.

again: impossible to came to a conclusion about anything reading opinions from experienced traders

mrgreen Feb 20, 2009 10:43pm | Post# 18

i read in another forum, that Wycoff traded intraday without volume, using only PnF.

then i read FTI saying that PnF was only for super long term trade.

again: impossible to came to a conclusion about anything reading opinions from experienced traders
I have not used the PnF charts but have read that they are best used for long term trading also. Reason being it is so hard to come up w/ a short term (intraday) box count reversal that is consistent.

These are 'old skool' charts - a sort of shorthand method for tracking price while watching the board at your local broker (my thinking on them), which may be why one doesnt see them much in the FX market. I mean, FX markets as we know them are fairly new. All Internet based etc.

billflet Feb 21, 2009 12:19am | Post# 19

I toy with PnF charts once in a while. I have no strategy for using them but filling them in manually doesn't take much time and helps give you a different perspective of the same information. I think the old guys (even older than me)
that created their charts by hand, wether it was PnF or lines or whatever, had a different feel for market rhythm.
A 30 some year veteran told me about his trading group in the early 70's. They would each choose a commodity and make a chart of it throughout the day, then copy and exchange their charts at the end of the day. I can't help but thinking that that had to be a good lesson in price action. Back then it was just the most practical way of doing it, at least for group I just mentioned.

Angler Feb 21, 2009 1:36am | Post# 20

hi. all...


Most times that I have tried P&F charts...I can find a bug in them.....


It should not matter what timeframe you use to plot the charts if the plot is done on a tick by tick basis....with some of them if you use an hour chart you can watch the (say "X") column rise and print a few X's but if in that same hour the price drops back down those "X's" get removed,which is not right...once plotted they should stay...and if the reversal box number is hit then "0's" plotted even in that same hour ...but some just dont do that...Your trade gets triggered then you look later and cant find why you took the trade....The printed "x" or "0" was removed....lol

The only way to rightly adjust sensitivity is to adjust the Box size and reversal box number.

As was mentioned...back in those days...they looked at each price tick and plotted if needed...

I have downloaded from Blaiserboys post so will take a look at that P&F plotting..maybe they have it right...

Yuppie Feb 21, 2009 2:18am | Post# 21

1 Attachment(s)
You draw a 10 pip box and 2 box reversal, 24/5 by hand?
Which timeframe do you use to get the data from and do you use close values or high/low of each closed bar...

I get the data from the tick-chart.

Attached is a trade I took a while ago. The main chart is there to show the candle representation. I wasn't watching this. I constructed the PnF from the tick.

Interesting point: I got out of this trade for a few pips as price drifted along sideways after entry (break above .30 level). A PnF chart abstracts out time and so had I followed PnF only here I might have stayed in for what was ultimately a 200 pip move with little pullback.


Magnus
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pnf-trader Feb 21, 2009 7:18am | Post# 22

It should not matter what timeframe you use to plot the charts if the plot is done on a tick by tick basis....
If your chart is based on tick data then you're right. But it's also possible to make a chart out of end of day values. This was the method they used for trading stocks - taking a look in the newspaper and update the chart. At least, that's what i've read in different books on point and figure.


with some of them if you use an hour chart you can watch the (say "X") column rise and print a few X's but if in that same hour the price drops back down those "X's" get removed,which is not right...once plotted they should stay...
Don't have this problem with my charts, but I can understand that this must be really bothering


and if the reversal box number is hit then "0's" plotted even in that same hour ...but some just dont do that...Your trade gets triggered then you look later and cant find why you took the...
This is true for using tick data maybe, but when you take end of day (or end of hour, minute etc.) data, then a new column won't be started as long as you have made new X's or O's in the current column. Only if a new high or low wasn't made a reversal might occur. But for using real time tick data, this might not be true.

pnf-trader Feb 21, 2009 7:23am | Post# 23

I get the data from the tick-chart.

Attached is a trade I took a while ago. The main chart is there to show the candle representation. I wasn't watching this. I constructed the PnF from the tick.
This looks great, really! Didn't know there are people using tick data as basis for their p&f charts. I know of two other guys that draw them based on 30min bars using high/low or close values. That way, you are also able to update many charts at the same tick.

If you're using tick data, this might be a little too much work.

Yuppie Feb 21, 2009 1:32pm | Post# 24

1 Attachment(s)
Short article on PnF.
FOREX - Point and Figure Charts (TAS&C).pdf

loujill Feb 22, 2009 1:08pm | Post# 25

Indicator for tick data?
 
Is there anyone who can create an indicator to capture the tick data PnF?

Angler Feb 22, 2009 9:47pm | Post# 26

hi all...

PnF-Trader

My understanding of the right way to chart P&F....in the older days on shares.. was to plot your chart using the " Course of Sales" data that used to be printed in most papers at the time...they printed that data even going back 10 yrs or so...that way you had the price of each sale that took place.

But yes I know the computers only used the end of day....but this is not quite right and distorts the charts a bit..

pnf-trader Feb 23, 2009 7:09pm | Post# 27

2 Attachment(s)
I didn't trade today, because I have been busy. But I have looked at some charts later. Before market closed on friday, EURUSD made a 200 pip upward move.

Today, USD has gained strenght again and the downward direction is still intact (second screenshot, box size 10 and reversal amount 3).

Take a look at the first screenshot (box size 100 and reversal 3, eod data), price is still below the bearish resistance line. I wouldn't go long in this current market situation but only look for sell signals. I added 3 support lines at 1.2400, 1.2500 and 1.2600. This have been strong support lines in the last weeks and months.

I am a little bit afraid of a bigger retrace due to the heavy support down here. And I don't want to be stuck at those price levels if a possible retrace should go back to 1.30 - 1.35. So maybe, I stay away from the market totally or only use a scalping setup to earn a few pips. But I will probably not open any mid and long term positions in the moment.

What do you guys say to the current situation of EURUSD?
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pnf-trader Feb 24, 2009 6:03am | Post# 28

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In my first post I have written about the break of the bearish resistance line in GBPJPY, end of day data with 100 pips boxsize.

Since then, GBPJPY made a ~500 pips upward move. Now I will watch 3x50 for a new buy entry signal, which I see at 139.50.

Attached two screenshots of 3x100 and 3x50.
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apfx Feb 24, 2009 2:14pm | Post# 29

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Beautiful charts pnf-trader. My compliments!!
Potential Bullish Catapult also on EURJPY
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FXSurfer Feb 24, 2009 3:36pm | Post# 30

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Here's a pretty nice P&F mq4 to check out guys.

Good Trading!

Brent
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FXI Point And Figure Advanced.mq4


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